Harvard University in Wikipedia:
The Founding Date

Revision as of 13:13, 26 October 2009

Harvard University
Seal of Harvard University
Motto	Veritas[1]
Motto in English	Truth
Established	September 8, 1636 (OS) September 18, 1636 (NS)[2]
Type	Private
Endowment	USD $26 billion[3]
President	Catherine Drew Gilpin Faust
Faculty	about 2,401
Staff	2,497 non-medical 10,674 medical
Students	19,136
Undergraduates	6,714
Postgraduates	12,422
Location	Cambridge, MA, USA
Campus	Urban 380 acres (1.5 km2)
Newspaper	The Harvard Crimson
Colors	Crimson
Mascot	John Harvard
Athletics	41 Varsity Teams Ivy League NCAA Division I Harvard Crimson
Website	harvard.edu

Harvard University (incorporated as The President and Fellows of Harvard College) is a private university located in Cambridge, Massachusetts and a member of the Ivy League. Founded in 1636 by the colonial Massachusetts legislature,^[2] Harvard is the oldest institution of higher learning in the United States....

References

Founding Date

I changed the founding date from Sept. 8 to Oct. 28. This is in accordance with "Cambridge Birthday," TIME Magazine, Sept. 28, 1936, and some other internet references to an action of the Massachusettts Bay Colony "Great and General Court" on Oct. 28, 1636. I could find no references on the Web, other than those that may have been derived from Wikipedia, to the alleged Sept. 8, 1636, founding date. For the original edit naming Sept. 8 as the founding date, see the revision of Sept. 17, 2003, by maveric149.

Cullinane 13:02, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Just to add additional confusion: would that be New Style or Old Style? That wouldn't account for the difference between Sept. 8 and Oct. 28, but as long as you're looking at this anyway... Dpbsmith (talk) 13:59, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Ah, the Time article says:

Birthday— Harvard claims birth on the day the Massachusetts Great and General Court convened to authorize its founding. This was Sept. 8, 1636 under the Julian calendar. Allowing for the ten-day advance of the Gregorian calendar, Tercentenary officials arrived at Sept. 18 as the date for the third and last big Day of the celebration.

Although the Time article does say "Six members of the Massachusetts Great and General Court which on Oct. 28, 1636 set aside £400 for that "schoale or colledge" it seems clear to me that Harvard officially celebrated the three hundredth anniversary of its founding on Sep 18, 1936, implying that in 1936 it officially considered itself to have been founded on September 8, 1636 (O.S.), September 18, 1636 (N.S.).

I think the article should say "September 8, 1636 (O.S.)" and then summarize the details in a footnote. Dpbsmith (talk) 14:09, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Dpbsmith, your argument that Harvard considers the Sept. 8 date to be significant is supported by Web pages that give the date of the college's bicentennial celebration as Sept. 8, 1836. But why this date (or the 18th, new style) is considered significant is not clear. It is probably more convenient to celebrate an anniversary at the beginning of the academic year rather than in late October. Convenience, however, is the enemy of veritas, which demands that Wikipedia state the date of Harvard's actual founding, rather than the date on which some officials, whether in 1836 or in 1936, considered the college to have been founded. Perhaps some other Wikipedians with convenient access to printed works by Samuel Eliot Morison, historian of the tercentenary celebration, can clarify the apparent confusion. I am still content with the October 28 date-- which, by the way, is substantiated by Harvard itself in its 1997 re-accreditation report.

Cullinane 15:00, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Let's look at what four different authors/historians say on the matter:

In A history of Harvard university, from its foundation, in the year 1636, to the period of the American revolutio, published in 1833, Benjamin Peirce states only that "historians fix [1636] as the date of the foundation of the College."

Contrary to the next two authors, in The history of Harvard university, published in 1840, Josiah Quincy tells us that the legislative act founding Harvard College was passed on September 8, 1636.

In 'Harvard: four centuries and freedoms, published in 1899, Charles A. Wagner states: "The decision to found it was taken by the General Court on October 28, 1636, and history is agreed that, with the actual allotment of money for the purpose, the deed was done."

Agreeing with Wagner, in The founding of Harvard College, published in 1963, Samuel Eliot Morison says in a subsection entitled "The Act of Foundation" that the Court met on September 8, 1636 but was adjourned to October 25. On October 28 the Court passed "the legislative act that founded Harvard College."

So I hope it's clear from this information why both September 8 and October 28 are considered significant dates. It appears that October 28 is the "real" date of the univerity's founding as cited in the 1997 reaccreditation report mentioned above. It's also clear that this is not quite black-and-white as the exact definition of "founding" doesn't appear to be completely fixed. --ElKevbo 16:00, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

I see that Daniel P. B. Smith has changed the article in accordance with his earlier suggestion. This is at least an improvement. Enemies of Harvard's political correctness may be amused by the fact that in the summary box, the college motto Veritas (Truth) is followed immediately by a Harvard lie.

Cullinane 22:47, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand the date change. The preponderance of the evidence indicates that October 28 is the correct date, including a very noteable document from Harvard itself. I think it's worth noting that there is disagreement about the date and that Harvard's stance has not been consistent but to rely on a magazine article from 1936 instead the above-cited sources strikes me as incorrect. Comments? --ElKevbo 00:13, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

The principles I think should be followed is this: if we have to pick one date to mention in the information box and the opening paragraph, that should be whatever date Harvard self-reports as its date of founding... whatever Harvard considers to be the founding event. If on the other hand we think this is egregiously non-neutral, then just say "1636".

The details should go in a footnote, and the footnote should state just the facts, ma'am: what sources say what event occurred on what day. If a source characterizes that event as "founding," fine, cite that. We should not judge what constitutes "founding." Let the reader judge that for themselves.

The 1936 Time article is reasonable evidence that Harvard decided in 1936 that September 8th, 1636 (OS) was the appropriate date.

The reason I think we should use the self-reported date is this: Founding dates of colleges and universities tend to be pretty dicey because there is broad scope for opinion on what should count as the "founding" event, as witness Penn's decision circa 1895 to restate its founding year from 1749 to 1740. I've been told that the custom in arranging the order of march in academic processions is for the hosting institution to accept the guest institutions' self-reported founding dates and not to second-guess them. So I think similarly we should accept Harvard's self-reported date. Or be deliberately vague and just use the year.

One reason I can't get all hot and bothered about Harvard "lying" is that I don't see what would be in it for Harvard. Harvard is some five decades older than William and Mary, and Harvard has nothing to gain by fiddling with the founding date by a few weeks one way or the other. It's not as if they could beat Oxford or Bologne if they could just stretch the truth a wee bit farther. Dpbsmith (talk) 01:55, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

!!!!! Lookee here relevant fact lookit lookit lookit!

History of Harvard University, by Josiah Quincy:

["At a Court holden September 8th, 1636 and continued by adjournment to the 28th of the 8th month (October, 1636)]

"The Court agreed to give £400 towards a School or College, whereof £200 to be paid next year...."

It all becomes crystal clear. Maybe. I betcha what's going on is this. The founding event is considered to be the £400 grant, but since the meeting was "continued by adjournment," the date of record of the meeting was September 8th, but the date on which the actual vote occurred was October 28th.

Some casual clicks on Harvard's website seem to show that for public consumption Harvard prefers just to say 1636 without naming a day... perhaps because they figure trying to explain the adjourned meeting and the O.S./N.S. business is more trouble than it's worth. Dpbsmith (talk) 02:13, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

I think that reporting just the year or "Fall 1636" with a footnote summarizing the differing opinions and sources would be the best course of action. I don't think it advisable for us to choose one of the two dates self-reported by Harvard as that is clearly POV or OR.

I also agree that accusing Harvard of intentionally lying or even stretching the truth is, in the absence of any supporting evidence, quite silly (at best). --ElKevbo 02:15, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Silly, perhaps, but a tradition. See Wikipedia on "the statue of three lies" in the article on Harvard Yard.

-- Cullinane 07:50, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Is that Old Style October 28th or New Style October 28th? Because, after all this shortdicking, we might have to end up putting November 7th. The more I think about this, my head hurts. I agree with Dpbsmith it's more trouble than it's worth...after all, we are just talking about that community college in cambridge. —ExplorerCDT 02:24, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Always subject to correction, of course, I'm pretty sure that Sept. 8th and Oct. 28th are both O.S. because they are mentioned together in the Josiah Quincy history mentioned above. So they are both on the same system, and the Time article makes it clear that Sep 8th was O.S. so Oct. 28th surely is, too.

In other words, I believe we are talking about a founding event consisting of a £400 appropriation, voted at a meeting that convened on September 8th, 1636 (O.S.) or September 18th (N.S.), and was adjourned to October 28th, 1636 (O.S.) or November 7th, 1636 (N.S.), with the actual vote occurring on the latter date. Dpbsmith (talk) 13:49, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

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